I think we’re pretty good at telling the difference between an AI generated image and a real photograph, but when I need help I call Hany Farid.

Farid is the cofounder of GetReal, a company that specializes in detecting deepfakes and other AI-generated images, and is the developer of PhotoDNA, a perceptual hashing algorithm that helps companies automatically detect and remove some of the worst images that exist online, and that is now being used by every serious internet platform in the world.

We started talking to Hany regularly in 2017, when Sam first reported on deepfakes. As that technology evolved and changed how we perceive reality, so have our conversations. I wanted to talk to him today on the podcast so you could hear of those conversations, and so that Hany and I could zoom out, reflect on the past few years, and speculate about where we might be headed.

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